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Nicholas Charles Urich's avatar

Impressive and striking as ever, Sam. I love studying this alongside you. I do believe this is the crux where I remain aloof where you appear convinced: "All I want to suggest is that both traditions are deeply rich, imperfect (as are all traditions) gravitations toward the same ineffable Reality, which manifests or reveals itself in the form of real distinctions."

I have yet to find the reasons to assume that most, if not all depending on how ya put it, religions point to the same reality. And the ineffable part plays its vital role here. I'm reading Negating Negation by Timothy D. Knepper. He talks about how anti-ontotheology, postmodern bizness, and religous pluralistic ideas have led to exegetically foolish interpretations of Pseduo-Dionysius. (For example, the position that PD abandons the importance of liturgy and ritual practice. When in reality, apophatic methods are meant to purify and PREPARE one for those methods.) Interpretations that assume that PD's God is ineffable in all respects are thoroughly disbarred in the book.

He goes a bit further and says that something that is absolutely ineffable (totally removed from us and our purposes) could not be for us. I've been thinking about the point of a world outside of us--unmoored from the Kantian copernican turn, our centered cognition. Many projects, especially in animal ethics--im thinking Nagel and Ralph. A. Acampora, and certain Heidegger folks--try to defend this "world without us." I see the stakes. But I've yet to find a handle on it.

I'm aware of how the waters of this topic ferment and boil. I've had debates reaching back to me and Karla Perez many years ago about how epistemology ought to relate to metaphysical assertions and vice versa. But putting those live and rife battles aside, I'm just not sure if there's an ultimate reality, or if there is, of what quality it is, or how one ought to act toward it.

I'm undecided on the issues. But I enjoy how you put it here. And I'm in full agreement with the need to emphasize the Buddha's self-designated middle-way, and it's cultural-ethical value. And I respect the careful and textually rich way you foreground Hinduism and Buddhism when talking about this stuff. Many people ignore the Vedic literature entirely when discussing Buddhism, even though it leads to a famished rendering. You have an eye for the richness.

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Cara Goldstone's avatar

Sam! Really good post. I am always impressed with the way you can communicate dense, complicated subjects like these to people (me) who have absolutely no prior knowledge of what you are talking about. Due to the aforementioned lack of prior knowledge on this subject, I fear I have nothing substantial to say about the philosophy you articulate here; I mostly just agree.

I do have one thing to mention specifically: you wrote, "Because consciousness itself, or Brahman, or the Buddha-nature, or whatever name we use, is still something we talk and think about, its concept contains the latent possibility—its concept, to be clear, rather than it in itself—of being objectified and idolised, and so becoming an impediment to its own realisation." This is wonderful. You are a very good writer, as I'd imagine you are already aware. But also, I think the idea of CONCEPTS rather than the True Actual Thing being idolized is relevant to a whole lot of different avenues.

Namely I think we do this often with things people see as Universal Human Experiences, a category with which I have many a bone to pick: love, happiness, peace, et cetera. I wrote a paper this past semester concerning the idolization of love, specifically as displayed by Miss Havisham of Charles Dickens's Great Expectation, and I came to a very similar conclusion. I think it is almost, if not completely impossible to communicate any universal thing at all due to the subjectivity of the human condition-- the way one person experiences love is a far cry from the way another does, just like how people label what temperature is comfortable differently, or how we argue about whether teal is blue or green.

So when we sculpt social standards and expectations around subjective concepts like love or happiness, we idolize them in a way that prevents us from reaching The Thing Actually-- if my experience of Happiness Actually does not look like how I expect it to based on the sociolinguistic standards of everyone around me, then I become alienated, and without introspection on this very topic, my Happiness Actually is drained from me in attempting to squish it into the conceptual box I'm expected to place it in.

In short, I think you've articulated in a few sentences a truth about how we see the world that resonates with me, in a way for which I haven't quite had the words in the past; I really appreciate this. My paragraphs of extrapolation here probably modify your point in a way you didn't intend-- I think I've got a different takeaway than you here. But then, language is mushy, experience is subjective, and so on and so on. I recognize I've gotten away from the point, or the point has gotten away from me. Thanks for this post, Sam, and I hope you have a wonderful day.

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